By mwindle1973 on Apr 26, 2012 | Reply
Finally it’s here! I still say this is going to be a wild one. There could be a lot of trades. And I still say it’s anyone’s guess how they come off the board. You know 1 & 2 already, and then you know the next 4 just not what order. But after those first 6 players, anything can happen. Good example…in recent days it has been reported that one analyst believes only TEN, NYJ & CIN have a 1st round grade on Courtney Upshaw. Now a week ago the talk was he might not be available at 17. I think from team to team the draft boards are going to look drastically different. Especially in rounds 2-4. I have no big wants out of this draft, just good picks and players that we can use.
I love that the draft is in prime time now, and I love the new format. But it is hard to know we will view 8-10 hours of programming over 2 nights and only know who 3 of the picks are. Oh well gives us more time to read all the new mocks based on the first round results. One website, draftek.com is running a real time mock. Meaning as each pick comes in, they run their computerized mock and do a new mock after each pick. That means after 18 mocks in 6 weeks, they will now do 32 mocks in 4 hours tonight. Wow! That’s a whole lotta mockin’!
It couldn’t have went better for us the first 16 picks. Hopefully we take Upshaw or Ingram here. But Kirkpatrick, Jones, DeCastro or Glenn would be good too. Thing is at least 2 of the above will be available at 21 and perhaps Hill as well.
Really thought Ingram was the hands down best player available. He perhaps couldn’t be projected to a position in our system. Kirkpatrick should be a good CB. There was a sharp dropoff after him so we must’ve wanted a top CB. He’s a bit small hopefully he can put on 10 lbs, and hopefully he’s a bit faster in game than his 40 time indicates. Yes!!!!! We traded down to NE at 27 and got there 93rd pick (3rd round) to take Jones-DE. That’s an extra player in round 3 or more ammunition if we need to move up in rounds 2 or 3. Lot of interesting players may be available at that pick. Hill-WR, DeCastro-G, Upshaw-DE/OLB, Glenn-T/G, Hightower-ILB, Konz-C/G, Wilson-RB. It would help if Cleveland takes Weeden-QB at 22. If they do at least 3 of these players will be there at 21. In fact we may get a player at 27 now that we would’ve taken at 21.
Looks like we have Upshaw, Glenn, Konz, Hill & Wilson to choose from. Not bad I seen mocks that had us taking Upshaw at 17 and Hill at 21. Both are still there at 27. Again I couldn’t tell you, they’d all be good picks. But Upshaw or Glenn would be my favorites, also Hill.
Zeitler! I forgot about him. Good pick, probably better than Glenn, because he is a true G, and he can pull & block in space better. Jone Gruden mentioned Zeitler before the pick came in. Then I remembered a piece I read about Bengals scout John Cooper lobbying the team to take an unnamed Big Ten Olineman in the 1st round. So the pick makes since. I’m happy in the end the team got what is likely a starting CB & starting G in the 1st round and picked up the 93rd pick. So we pick at 53, 83 & 93. There will be good WRs, RBs, OLBs, DEs & DTs. There will be a couple good Ss and a couple good CBs, and maybe 1 ILB that will go in that span as well. As far as players to contribute right away, WRs may be found as late as round 4. RBs will be gone after round 3, DEs & OLBS too. DTs could be there as late as round 5 as can Gs. CBs will be gone by round 3. There’s maybe 2-3 Ss left that could contribute they could be there as late as round 4 maybe later. From there you are looking at projects or devalued positions like K,P, blocking TE, FB. Couldn’t have asked for much more out of the 1st round. Biggest needs were CB & G. Filled them and got an extra 3rd rounder int he process. Here’s hoping tomorrow goes just as well.
By overthroensamoan on Apr 26, 2012 | Reply
I’m sorry but I don’t think they ‘re any better. They get a CB that struggles in man coverage and will now have to face the next Pro Bowl guard twice a year for the next who knows how many years. They end up with another unathletic mauler. I’m sure Marvin will stand up tomorrow and say we had Zeitler rated higher than DeCastro. Yeah and I’ve got some lovely prime swamp land to sell ya. He gambled and he lost big. He thought he could move down and still get Decastro. How could he not believe Pitts would grab him especially with the struggles they had running the ball.
By tepidfan31 on Apr 27, 2012 | Reply
It will be interesting to see how the trade pans out over the next few years. All of the pundits had De Castro rated very high and Zietler as somewhat less, but we got a 93. I question Alexander’s judgement, but not Mc Nally’s, if he was involved. Will Z and 93 justify the trade?
Won’t know until later. But, DeC being a Steeler is in my craw.
By flp88 on Apr 27, 2012 | Reply
I was thrilled with the Kirkpatrick pick – Marvin and his first round corners…I hope the 93rd pick works out well because it looks like our biggest rival got the better guard. I hope we can bundle all of those 5th rounders and move up into the 3rd round again. Better to have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds than a bunch of low picks who carry a lower probability of success in the league.
By mwindle1973 on Apr 27, 2012 | Reply
@tepid: I’m with you. I’m really surprised we passed on DeCastro & Glenn too. But I did hear Mayock say Zietler could go in the first round. He had Zietler ranked 31st and he refused to rank Glenn as anything but a RT often saying he struggled in tight spaces. I think you can already consider it a great trade though, because they were picking him at 21 anyway. I think a lot of teams graded players differently than the mocksters. THe player that concerns me more is Kirkpatrick. IDK it’s all the scouting reports on him…they confuse me. They say he’s a well schooled CB who plays all the coverage styles. With Alabama running a lot of man press. They say he’s physical and a good tackler, with great length. Negatives always say 3 things, one is his size, two is his lack of INTs. The other is always listed as a positive too, man press coverage. It’s confusing cause he excelled in physicality and man press in college. Yet they project cause he is thin and has a slow 40 time that he will struggle in the pros. I just hope we didn’t spend a 17 on a so-so CB, then end up having banner crop of CBs in next years draft. I guess you have to get them when you can, because they aren’t always going to be there in the 20s. And also this may be pundits looking at combine numbers and not enough at game tape.
Looking at the players left on the board, it would be tempting to trade up if we felt strongly about some of those guys sitting there. With Glenn, Upshaw, Worthy, Martin, Hill, Fleener & Konz all were mocked as 1st rounders. And then you have character guys, like Janoris Jenkins & Mike Adams who have 1st round talent and character issues. To go from 53 to 34 would take the 3rd rounder (93) form the Pats and the 2 5th rounders. You could get to 40 with the 3rd rounder alone, and we could get up to 46-47 with the 2 5th rounders. We could also continue to trade back and perhaps start accumulating picks for next year to go with the extra 2nd rounder we already have. But that’s a dream. Unfortunately 53 is prime area for the 2nd tier CBs but other players I like that could be there at 53: Vinny Curry-DE, Lavonte David-OLB, Andre Branch-OLB, Cam Johnson-DE, Kendall Reyes-DT, Derek Wolfe-DT. The last of the second tier WRs could be there at that range too: Alshon Jeffrey, Brian Quick, T.Y. Hilton & Rueben Randle. At 83 and 93 is the perfect place to snatch a RB. Probably won’t be one taken again until the 3rd round. There we are in range for any of these RBs: Isaiah Pead, Lamar Miller, Bernard Pierce, Chris Polk & Robert Turbin. The next tier of WRs kicks in around 80 or so as well. But if tonight is like last night who knows what players will be around. It will be interesting to see where we go with these 3 picks.
There’s still some good players on the board with 51 up. Pead is gone. Makes me wonder if it will start a run on RBs, a lot of people thought they wouldn’t start moving again until late 2nd/early 3rd. The Packers just trade up to 51, but we have some good players we could utilize here. OLBs David & Brown, Miller-RB, Curry-DE, there are still a few solid DTs on the board, and Konz-C/G. Konz would be unpopular, but with him playing all 5 positions in college I can’t see passing him up, between him, Zeitler, Cook, Smith, Whit, Hudson, Boling & Collins and this line is set for years to come. But I imagine the pick could be better used elsewhere. But to me he’s the 1st to 2nd best player left.
Ruben Randle-WR would be a good pick here at 53 too
I think we got good value for Still. Rob Rang’s final mock had us picking him at 17. Mayock had him 42 on his big board. Plus after him there were only 3 more DTs left before we hit another dropoff in talent there. There’s a couple good WRs, and about 5-6 RBs we can get here, and an OLB or two. We should probably grab a WR here if we are going to, same with the OLB. RBs will still be there at 93, maybe even 116. Lamar Miller would be a good pick if we did go RB with one of these 2.
By mwindle1973 on Apr 28, 2012 | Reply
Sanu & Thompson were great picks too. This has been a great draft. Mayock gave us the best draft after 3 rounds. Sanu is a great fit for the WCO, very physical. Thompson was like Michael Johnson a 3rd round pick with a 2nd round grade. May seem like overkill but he will likely make Pat Sims expendable by next season. There are still some good RBs out there that would make good situational RBs. Beyond that it’s hard to tell where we go with the picks. There are a couple good Ks this year, but we franchised one. I think a QB with one of the 5th rounders would be smart. It’s hard to say at this point where to go with the picks because anyone drafted is going to have a hard road making the roster. The competition should turn out a strong roster in the end.
By kruegermaneuver on Apr 28, 2012 | Reply
I want to see some more defensive lineman and Boom Herron. Bengals need another back that can get behind them big lineman and scoot through the D.
By tepidfan31 on Apr 28, 2012 | Reply
Sanu? makes you wonder! You can’t stretch the field with a 4.7, 40; a surprise pick, which I don’t understand at all.
So where will go in round 4? THis has been a productive round in the past. There’s a few WRs, that could add to our roster, as well as several situational RBs. Chris Polk was one of the best pure RBs in the draft, but his shoulder injuries scare me. Terrence Gannaway is a 240 lb Michael Bush like power back, who can catch too, he should be there in round 5. DE Cam Johnson would be a great pick here. A lot of places had him ranked outside the top 10 DEs, Mayock had him 7th and 50th overall. THis would be a great spot to get a second CB as there are still 4 CBs that were in most rankings of the top 10 CBs. Alfonzo Dennard being one of them. As well as a 5th CB, Josh Norman, from Coastal Carolina, that is largely ranked that low due to playing against small school comp.
Mayock called it the best draft so far yesterday & now Kiper, near the end of the draft, has said we’ve had one of the top drafts, if not the best. TE Orson Charles wasn’t a sexy pick, but he will make the roster. CB Shaun Prater is a good pick too. He also can make the roster. Has some weaknesses, but this is an experienced guy, who played against strong comp, in a pro-like D, who can contribute day 1. WR Marvin Jones is another great pick. He was 89th on Mayock’s big board & most thought he would go in the 3rd/4th round. Good speed and hands, quick off the line. Gives some solid comp at the WR corps. S George Iloka again great pick, I could see him making the team too. Ranked the top FS by cbssports.com and 4th overall by nfl.com. RB Dan Herron completes a near perfect draft IMO. The prospect with the most question marks is Kirkpatrick, but if he is what the team says he is, we just nailed 10 picks in 6 rounds. Actually managing to pick up 10 players with a realistic chance to make the final roster. There still looks like there could be some good free agents to go after. Especially at WR & RB were there should be a number of decent prospects left.
By jimmythegreek325 on Apr 29, 2012 | Reply
Here is my prediction for the 53-man roster:
QB: Andy Dalton, Bruce Gradkowski
RB: BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Bernard Scott, Brian Leonard, Boom Herron
FB: Chris Pressley
TE: Jermaine Gresham, Orson Charles
WR: A.J. Green, Mohamed Sanu, Jordan Shipley, Marvin Jones, Ryan Whalen, Andrew Hawkins
OT: Andre Smith, Andrew Whitworth, Anthony Collins, Dennis Roland
OG: Kevin Zeitler, Travelle Wharton, Jacob Bell, Clint Boling
C: Kyle Cook
CB: Dre Kirkpatrick, Nate Clements, Leon Hall, Terence Newman, Adam Jones, Jason Allen
S: Reggie Nelson, Taylor Mays, Robert Sands, George Ioka
LB: Rey Maualuga, Manny Lawson, Thomas Howard, Vontaze Burfict, Dontay Moch, Roddrick Muckelroy
DE: Carlos Dunlap, Michael Johnson, Robert Geathers, Jamaal Anderson, Derrick Harvey
DT: Geno Atkins, Domata Peko, Pat Sims, Devon Still, Brandon Thompson
LS: Clark Harris
P: Kevin Huber
K: Mike Nugent
By mwindle1973 on Apr 29, 2012 | Reply
It was reported that the Vontaze Burfict pickup was set up before the draft, with Lewis telling him if he wasn’t picked we would sign him. How did the top LB prospect the year he came out of high school, end up like this? He’ll be a wild card in the roster fight. There are so many young prospects on the roster from this draft and the last 2 that no one is going to get comfortable. I do wish at some point that we would take the stance to draft QBs in the late rounds to groom as backups. Or at least bring in an UDFA. I really felt Kellen Moore would have been a great prospect to backup Dalton. But then you have to devote a roster spot to him at some point. But Gradkowski’s contract is up after this year. To me he is a great backup to Dalton, and he could lead the team to wins under the right circumstances, if Dalton was injured for awhile. But he’s also a fringe starter in the NFL. I don’t think we can keep him here if he thinks he has a chance to start elsewhere. History has shown the importance of a good backup with past Super Bowl winners relying heavily on backups. The ’70 Colts with Unitas/Morrall, ’72 Dolphins perfect season split by Griese/Morrall & the 01′ Pats with Brady/Bledsoe.
By mwindle1973 on Apr 30, 2012 | Reply
@JimmytheGreek325: Roster looks pretty close to how I see it too. On the WRs though I think Binns will beat out Hawkins, and it’s possible Hazleton could beat out Whalen. I think Otis Hudson beats out Bell at G. Also I think we keep 3 TEs definitely, we considered 4 last year. Probably only keep 3 HBs too. And I’d say one of those DEs will get cut as well, and we keep 9 instead of 10. Geathers, Harvey & Anderson…1 of those 3 will not make the cut at DE. My guess is Harvey has the longest shot. And if the other 2 have good camps, Geathers may get the Willie Anderson treatment. Where they ask him to do a new contract for less money, or they cut him. But if they do what I say that’s 3 roster spots that are open. They would likely fill them with players that can’t go to the practice squad or won’t clear waivers to get there. It could be 10 Dline, 4 HBS, 4 TEs. They could be used to retain LBs or CBs to give them another year to develop. At CB we will have to make a choice between youth or experience. To keep the vets for 1 or 2 more years we will have to cut Ghee & Prater and they likely won’t make it past waivers. It’s going to be a dogfight! And I imagine there might be some surprises with all this competition. There’s going to be a young guy overachieve or a vet rise to top form, and it’s going to change the shape of things. With so many young players too, some of them will have made big strides since we last seen them.
@tepid: Jerry Rice ran a 4.71. Bill Walsh always said that he never seen Rice caught from behind in his career though. He said “pad speed” played into it. That with all the equipment on, Jerry still ran the same speed, whereas most players lose .1-.3 when carrying the weight of their pads. Walsh also said that Rice was a long strider, so he didn’t explode off the line, but in the upper gear he cover some yards. Now Sanu is not Jerry Rice. But he ran a 4.67 at the combine, but then ran a 4.55 at his Pro Day. You’re right he isn’t going to run by anybody. But he is a long strider, and he runs impeccable routes. He will fill a void in our practically non-existent short passing game. And bolster our intermediate game too. I think the TJ comparisons are fair, also Larry Fitzgerald has similar attributes. Not saying Sanu will be as good as Fitzgerald just a similar WR. TJs 40 time at his combine was 4.61, Fitzgerald’s was 4.63. I think he’ll give Shipley a run for his money for the top slot WR job. He’s not going to blow up Ds, but he is the type of WR that will help you sustain drives and convert 3rd downs.
@jimmythegreek325: Also the LBs. Howard, Maualuga & Lawson are locks. If we keep six, it’s going to be a dogfight, with 6 guys going for 3 spots and a practice squad spot. I’d say Skuta & Moch have the best chance. But Muckelroy was playing really well before injury. Then you have Vinny Rey, Micah Johnson & Burfict. Also there could be more UDFA LBs signed or free agents later down the road. Lewis indicated when asked about not drafting LBs, that they would bring in UDFA and address it in “other ways”. Because the 6 guys that aren’t starters include, 4 MLBs, 1 SAMs, and a MLB/SAM. There still seems to be no WILL backup on the roster. We could make one of these guys a WILL, or sign one, or could do some more trading. We could keep 7 LBs too, and keep one on the practice squad. But we’ll have to address either getting a backup WILL or moving one of these guys to that position. My guess is we sign Brandon Johnson before camp. He is a natural WILL, but can play all three spots out of any formation. I think the final LBs may look like Howard, Maualuga, Lawson, Johnson, Moch, Muckelroy & Skuta, with Burfict to the practice squad if he can make it past waivers. But Vinny Rey could take one of those last 2 spots.
By bengalpirate on May 1, 2012 | Reply
Oh Great Windy One, I pretty much agree with you on how the final roster should look. I think this was a great draft on paper and potentially we’re looking at new starters that could push us over the top and maybe help deliver that elusive playoff victory. I see Zeitler, Still and almost all the other picks as real steals. I caution myself, though, in that I’m wary of the age old injury bugaboo that has struck us and other teams before in OTAs, preseason, regular season practices and outside of football injuries. While injuries that Ki-Jana Carter/Kenny Irons, Pollack and many others suffered do happen, the thing I like about this roster is how at almost every position there so much quality depth that even allowing for the inevitable injuries, it is the next man up concept with little drop-off in talent. The teams that usually make it to the Super Bowl are already good teams, but also enjoy a little luck, few major injuries and outstanding team depth at every position. One can only hope that one day soon, the Bengals will have another year like 81 and 88 and win the big one. Gotta win that first playoff game first, though. Who Dey!!!
By jimmythegreek325 on May 1, 2012 | Reply
@mwindle1973: yeah, my roster might have been half what i think & half what i want it to look like… i’m excited though, we have a lot of quality depth and we will end up cutting some very good players, a great problem to have
By mwindle1973 on May 2, 2012 | Reply
@bengalpairate: Yeah good points about the injury bug (somebody knock on wood). A lot of assumption here too. We’ll know more when they get to rookie camp about how they can contribute. But one thing about those injuries is it seems we have pretty much (obviously Still has had injuries) went with physical players, with durable bodies the last 3 drafts. But like you I have a good feeling about this draft class. And it’s not that they were all such great finds, it’s just they fit our team so well. And then like you said, it raises the talent level of the bottom of the roster. But it all excites me because this is how teams string together winning seasons, is by building a roster from top to bottom. And the best thing is we are in financial standing to keep the nucleus intact over the next few years. The main thing this year is keep growing and get the monkey off our back, and pull out the first back to back winning seasons in 30 years. Then that first playoff victory in 22 years would be nice! Who Dey!
It’s so sad to read about the passing of Junior Seau. I wonder if this is going to be linked to brain trauma like some of the other recent suicides of former NFL players like Dave Duerson for instance? I guess it’s not certain that it’s suicide at this point. Just sad either way. If it is due to brain trauma it’s another reminder that it’s real, because some of the general NFL public doesn’t buy into the concept of it yet. If not I still feel there have been enough research and deaths to confirm that there is some kind of connection. The NFL needs to keep pedal to the floor on it’s health & safety initiative. They’ve done well adjusting the rules, and will continue. They’ve done some work on safety through better equipment. But they could go a lot farther in that area. Helmets need to be continually improved to reduce the force of the blow delivered. NASCAR is the model example of using technology to make a once deadly sport relatively safe. And they did it in a little less than 10 years. Soft walls, HANS devices to stabilize the neck, and a lot of other innovations.
By mwindle1973 on May 5, 2012 | Reply
@thegreek: Your roster looked pretty good, just giving my own take on it. I think it’s going to be a dog fight. And you’re right there will be some talented players end up getting cut. I’m pretty excited too!
By mwindle1973 on May 8, 2012 | Reply
On Jacoby Jones…isn’t he just Brandon Tate with more experience? I mean Jones’ frame is a little more compact, but there virtually the same height, similar frame. Except Jones has the experience, but he also has a bad case of fumbllitis, 11 carreer fumbles, including 2 muffed punt returns in last year’s playoffs , and 7 fumbles returning punts in a span of 101 returns. Tate has 4 fumbles in 169 career touches, but he’s never had the issues Jones has had. Plus Tate had very little time and struggled to learn his new role here. I think this year he will return to the player who only fumbled 1 time in his first 76 career touches before coming to Cincy. As well Tate has a little more explosion and top end speed than Jones. On Braylon Edwards…I can’t imagine why we want him. Unless we think it’s worth a 1 year, vet minimum contract to find out what he’s all about. If he’s aboard, then Tate, Hawkins, Binns, Whalen, Jones, Moore, Hazleton are all in danger. Edwards will bump one of these guys off the 61 man roster (53 man + 8 man PS) that would otherwise be on there. And at least 1 of them won’t be on the final 61 anyway. So now you look at losing 2 or 3 of them. We have Green, SHipley & Sanu and then we will keep 3, maybe 4 more on the 53, and 1 on the PS who is eligible.
@Hobson: Which of the WRs on the current roster still have practice squad eligibility?
By mwindle1973 on May 14, 2012 | Reply
It seems by last count we have 11 WRs in the fight to make the team. That’s pretty normal, what isn’t normal is how tight the competition is from 2-11, and how talented the WRs on the back of the list are. We almost always keep 6 & 1 on the PS @ WR. One year (I think when we drafted Cladwell & Simpson) we kept 7 &1 on the PS. SO we can keep 8 total (assuming one can pass waiver to the PS) and we can PUP Shipley. So until week 7 or so we can deep 9 of them. Green, Shipley, Sanu, & Jones are locks. Let’s go ahead and PUP Shipley, which I think is very likely at this point. We traded for Tate and he’s young…he’s a near lock. So we have 4 locked in and one to the PUP. The next guys up would be Whalen, Hawkins, Binns, Hazelton. I’m not a trending type of guy, but I was high on Binns when he went undrafted, even higher on him now. I think he’s a lock too. Leaving us 2 roster spots + a PS slot. Hawkins & Whalen have the advantage here, but Hazelton, Moore & Rogers have some physical advantages of their own. It’s going to be experience vs growth here. Hawkins and Whalen either can’t or won’t make it to the PS. With Hazelton, Moore & Rogers right now they could make the PS, but if they show well enough in the preseason that could change. And who knows if we keep 6 or 7 on the 53 man roster. With the kind of Dline comp we have going we could keep 9 or 10 there just protect people for the future.
By mwindle1973 on May 20, 2012 | Reply
The consensus opinion in the media is that we lack talent at RB. I really think BJGE is going to surprise people. In the end it’s the Oline that decides how successful the RB can be. In this case I think it’s obvious that we have shifted to a different running philosophy. I believe we are most concerned with ball security, consistency, vision/sound decision making, pass blocking & short yardage reliability. In the past we emphasized physicality and big play ability over vision/decision making and short yardage reliability. I don’t think we are going to ask the RBs to shoulder a conservative clock management strategy anymore. I think the RBs are now going to play a much different kind of role in the offense. They will be asked to fill a roll and the will be put in a position to succeed in that roll. The strategy will likely change from imposing the run on the D, to using deception, misdirection and the element of surprise to have success in the run game. BJGE & BScott are more than capable. Leonard can do more than most think. Peerman is a very solid back & Dan Herron will have his chance to show what he can do. But all these guys have a similar qualities as far as attitude, intelligence, and being fundamentally sound in most or all aspects of the game.
I see that Dontay Moch was suspended for 4 games pending appeal for testing positive for a banned substance. that’s disappointing. He was highly touted coming out, and had the tools to be a success a SAM LB. A position that this team always seems to have problems solidifying. Also just adds to the perception that we breed trouble makers in Cincy, when it’s just not the truth.
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